[draft] MINUTES
date: Thursday 7 November 2024
time: 12.00 noon
venue: The Carysfort Suite, Talbot Hotel, Stillorgan Road, Blackrock, Co Dublin A94 V6K5
Bus routes: 46A, 145, 155. There is free car parking at the rear of the hotel.
present: Current committee: Stephanie Fitzpatrick (Chair), Tony O’Connor (Vice-Chair & Trustee), Siobhán Carew (Secretary), Carole Corrigan (Treasurer), Keith Hyland (Webmaster), Phil Healy (Trustee), Mairéad de Buitléir, Joe Harris, Kintilla Heussaff, Malachy Lawless, Joe Little.
Approximately 150 Association members attended in person, and four members via Zoom.
- Minutes of 2023 AGM
Liam Keogh proposed that minutes of the AGM held on 23 September 2023 be approved. This was seconded by Liam Hendley, and the minutes were approved. - Chair’s report
Good afternoon, everyone. It’s good to be back together. Great numbers.
There were 3 key areas of attention for us in this busy year:
• Lobbying for pension increases for our members
• Doing our best to ensure that our pension is kept safe from being raided by RTÉ …
• Trying to ensure that pensioners have a national voice about what happens to their pensions
Pay increases
The Chair prefaced this section by thanking the Trustees for their excellent handling of the investments in the RTÉ Superannuation fund.
Over the course of this year – the Trustees of the RTÉ Superannuation Scheme announced that a 4.0% pension increase was approved for pensions in payment with effect from 1st January 2024. This follows increases of 4% on 1st January 2023 and 2.5% on 1st January 2022.
To put this in context, public sector pay from 2020-mid 2026 will increase by a total of 19.5% (including a 1% local bargaining element)
RTÉ pensioners have received 12.5% since 2020. If we receive another 4% in 2025, and 2% for the first half of the year in 2026, this would give us a total of 18.5%.
At our meeting with the Trustees on 6th September 2024, we requested that they make up this 1% difference by mid 2026. The Trustees listened and said they would look at the argument.
At that same meeting, we also discussed ways that the approval of increases could be speeded up in future.
Regarding pension increases, the RTÉSA Actuarial Report for 2023 notes that prior to 2008, RTÉSA pensions were indexed in line with changes in pay levels within RTÉ (excluding promotional increases) and reflected national pay agreements and their various equivalents. It also notes that ‘residual assets, having provided for core liabilities, are adequate to provide the liability associated with all future anticipated discretionary pension increases from 1/1/2024 at a level of 4% p.a.’
However, there is still a long and tortuous process, with many parties, to go through before an increase is signed off. This is an issue the committee hope to have a say in improving over the next year, as delays in getting increases adversely affect our members.
Admin costs
Since the AGM in 2022, when the RTÉRSA membership unanimously voted against RTÉ’s attempt to take admin costs from our pension fund (over €30m over the life of the fund), your RTÉRSA committee has lobbied the RTÉSA trustees, the RTÉ Exec board, the RTÉ Board, Catherine Martin’s office, The Pensions Authority (50 pages!). We’ve successfully ensured that this subject has been raised in Dáil Questions during the year. We’ve been behind media articles on the subject and you, the membership, have also lobbied both government and politicians and written many letters.
We are firmly of the view that this lobbying has been successful– and we can be proud of it!
As you know, Minister Catherine Martin has now withdrawn her support for this proposal. We are delighted.
However, we do need to stay vigilant. This was the letter we received from Minister Martin’s office:
I wish to confirm that the request is deemed closed. The Department is no longer seeking the approval of Minister Donohoe to implement the change in Regulation 20 (as amended by Regulations 88 and 109 and as requested by RTÉ in January 2023), in relation to the operational and administration costs of the RTÉSA at this point in time.
https://www.rtersa.ie/uncategorized/repply-from-department-of-tourism-culture-arts-gaeltachtsport-and-media-tcagsm-on-11th-april-2024/
Also, it’s worth noting that these admin costs are no longer allowed for in the RTÉSA accounts.
Note this sentence in the RTÉSA actuarial report 2023 –
2.14 – I….remove the reserve previously created to provide for future administration expenses from the fund.
Wider View/ Voice for Pensioners/Irish Senior Citizens Parliament Update
Both Tony O’Connor and Joe Little will address this area later in the meeting.
Membership numbers
1000 + paid up members. This year has seen a major increase in the number of email addresses for our members – just under 700 – and we have about 200-250 postal addresses for those who don’t have emails.
Thanks to –
• The RTÉRSA membership for your support and lobbying…. thanks to every individual who wrote letters, spoke with politicians, etc Thanks also to the Cork and Southern Region group who between them made a concerted group effort to lobby their politicians regarding our pension increases.
• Thanks to the elected RTÉSA trustees, Eugene Murray and Paul Doyle for their work as the elected representatives on the RTÉSA – and just to note our thanks again to Charlie Byrne for his previous work as a Trustee.
• Our thanks to Ms Siún Ní Raghallaigh, who proactively invited us in for a meeting with her late last year. One of the subjects covered at the meeting was our request for an independent chair of the RTÉSA. We are very happy to see that Michael Madden has now been appointed to that position, and we welcome him as an independent chair.
• We’ve now established a tradition of an annual meeting with the Trustees – we are very glad that this is now the case.
• My thanks to our committee who have participated so proactively and supportively during the year
• My thanks also to Malachi Lawless and Kintilla Heussaff for their work on the committee – both of whom are stepping down today.
• And my particular thanks to Tony O’Connor, deputy chair, for his invaluable support and assistance throughout the last year.
- Treasurer’s report
Carole Corrigan told the meeting that the accounts had been audited and copies were available should members like one. It was also possible to quest and electronic copy via email. Carole said we were very solvent. She pointed out that we lost a number of members in the last year, and expressed a wish that new members would join.
A breakdown on the amounts held in the accounts as at 31 December 2023 is as follows:
RTÉ Credit Union Admin Account (covering ongoing costs) 39,453
RTÉ Credit Union Legal fund 24,595
AIB 56,083
State Savings investment 100,000
Overall total: €220,132- Webmaster’s report
Keith Hyland advised that the website had been moved to a new server. This gives increased security options. Questions regarding the website could be raised under Open Questions. - Vice-chair’s report
Good afternoon everyone and thank you for coming.
I’d like to take this opportunity to let you know about some developments that have taken place in the Oireachtas which potentially could be very beneficial for all retired people. It is called the Industrial relations Bill 2021 (Provisions in respect of pension and entitlements of retired workers).
A quick background. In 2017 our committee – Eddie Bolger and Mairéad in particular at the time, started to explore the possibility of getting together with other similar retired staff associations because they had many issues in common. I took up the chalice along with Mairéad, when I came along, and in 2018, we had our first meeting in Wynns Hotel with the ESB, Bord Gáis, Aviation, Eircom, Bord na Móna and CIE representatives. It’s fair to say I think that we were central to this initiative and I assume in consequence, I found myself Chairing this broader committee. Many meetings with politicians, lobbyists, advisors et cetera followed and many, many letters were written. Unfortunately the advent of Covid brought a temporary halt to matters.
The central issue is quite simple. Once people retire, they have no official, organised access to organisations such as the WRC/Labour court, Equality Tribunals, Pension Authority, Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman. And yet many decisions have been made over the years which radically affect peoples’ pensions and we have many examples where pensions have been severely reduced and indeed stopped without any recourse for the people affected. I can mention two in particular, CIE and Aer Lingus.
And while many politicians sympathised, at the end of the day, only one politician took up the cause and brought a bill to the Oireachtas – that was Bríd Smith.
As you can imagine the establishment, and that includes trade unions by the way, opposed it tooth and nail. In general the establishment didn’t want to rock the boat. However much to my delight, our group has now grown and we were delighted when the Irish Senior Citizens Parliament – to give it its full title, and Age Action, together with the Retired Aviation Staff Association, the ESB Retired staff Association, RTÉRSA, and the National Federation of Pension Associations all got together with a joint membership of approximately 500,000 people campaigning for over three years.
Happily we have now gathered sufficient support within Dáil Éireann to get the bill through to the critical Committee Stage and despite the general election we are assured it will return in the next Dáil to continue its journey – but for this to be successful – we need all the support that we can garner from a wide variety of politicians and that’s why your support in lobbying your TDs is absolutely critical. This is not a party political issue – it’s an issue which affects all older people and their right to be heard when decisions are being made, in any forum, which could affect their pension rights. Very simple!
We have written to every TD in Dáil Éireann. A copy of this letter is on our website. And by the way, there is a widespread notion among the public with TDs and among journalists that all older people have a pension – by which they mean the state pension and “aren’t they all being looked after!” This is simply not the case.
And above all it is important to make clear, because I have heard TDs state this incorrectly – we have no wish to get involved in labour relations. We want to have a presence at the table if our pensions are being affected and nothing else.
One last point. By comparison with most of our colleagues, I think we are very lucky because we now have a very well-run Superannuation Scheme, well administered, well-invested, with an independent Chair and two skilled and vocal representatives. Our relations with government are better than ever and the fund is the envy of most of our sister organisations.
Thank you.
- Trustees’ report and questions
Eugene Murray mentioned the recent pension increases. He said the Fund was in good shape. The reason the Actuarial report has recommended a 4% increase annually was because if there is a surplus of more than 10%, the additional funds goes to the Government.
Over the last ten years, 70% of assets were in stocks and shares. Currently, eighty percent of assets are now invested in Government Bonds. The Scheme does not invest in the UK, US or Southern European Government Bonds. The risk profile of the Scheme is very good. Core benefits are completely matched by bonds. Inflation linked bonds give inflation protection.
Eugene explained the process of approving increases, saying there were six layers to go through. The process happened much faster this year. A draft Actuarial Report comes in earlier in the year and the approval process could be speeded up if the increase request is based on that. Eugene pointed out that CIÉ have not had an increase since 2008. If a fund is financially stressed, there is a logic in delaying increases.
Eugene said he would not run in the next RTÉ Superannuation Trustee election. He has been on the board for twelve years now.
Eugene referred to the website run by Charlie Byrne. Eugene and Paul will ask the Trustees that the RTÉRSA be informed about deaths of colleagues in future.
Paul Doyle said he would not duplicate what Eugene had said. He spoke of the Scheme fund, saying it had been significantly de-risked. While there may be fluctuation of markets, primarily Euro-zone bonds, the fund has made long-term investments, which as they hold until maturity, fluctuation will not affect us. The fund remains very healthy.
Paul spoke of the 4% annual increase which has addressed the surplus danger. The Scheme had capacity to support those increases into the future.
He then addressed the Buy-in and Buy-out schemes. With a Buy-in, the Scheme takes out an insurance policy to cover pensions. With a Buy-out, the Scheme ceases to exist. The Trustees are actively considering a Buy-in scheme because a Buy-out would involve extensive changes to the Scheme regulations. Also, discussions with advisors say it’s rare to do a Buy-out unless there is pressure to wind up a scheme. There is an investment decision to be made and the Trustees will do that.
- Amendment to Articles of Association
Members were asked to vote on four changes to the current Articles of Association.
a) Change to article 5, increasing the number of ordinary members of the committee from 5 to 10.
The amended was approved. The new article reads as follows:
“The Association shall be governed by an Executive Committee consisting of a Chairperson, Vice-chairperson, Honorary Secretary, Honorary Treasurer (herein called “The Officers”) and ten (10) Ordinary Members. The Committee shall be elected at the Annual General Meeting of the Association by those present at such meeting. On the completion of the election of the Executive Committee two of its members shall be designated Trustees for the purpose of these articles by a majority vote of all those present and voting at the Annual General Meeting.
(b) Change to article 11, changing the date the AGM is held.
The amended was approved. The new article will read as follows:
"The Annual General Meeting (AGM) of the Association shall take place each year on a date to be decided by the committee. Notification of the time and place of the annual general meeting and of any extra ordinary general meeting shall be posted by ordinary mail or other electronic mail to the members not less than ten (10) days in advance of such meetings."
(c) Change to article 17, changing the number of officers on the designated bank and investment accounts.The amended was approved. The new article will read as follows:
“All the monies received by the Association by way of members contributions or otherwise shall be lodged in the joint names of any four nominated officers of the Association in a bank account or investment portfolio approved by the Association. All monies for expenses or other outgoings as approved by the committee from time to time shall be drawn as required from the said account by the trustees (or the two aforementioned nominated officers).”
(d) Change to article 18, noting these changes to the Article of Association.
The amended was approved. The new article will read as follows:
“These articles of association have been adopted at an Extraordinary General Meeting of the Association held on the 14th day of October 1991 and amended by the insertion of new articles 13,14 and 15 at an Extraordinary General Meeting of the Association held on the 25th of May 1994. The Articles were further revised, amended and ratified at the Annual General Meeting held at the Talbot Hotel, Stillorgan, on the 26th April 2018. Further amendments to articles 5, 11, 16, 17 and 18 were revised, amended and ratified at the Annual General Meeting held on the 7th November 2024.”
The full Articles of Association will be available on the RTÉRSA website.- Open to questions from the floor
The following questions were asked:
• Could the committee email information for lobbying Politicians who call to our doors?
Joe Little said we would send a copy of the flyer on, and it will also be available on the website. A letter to politicians will also be available on the website. Joe remarked that the election lobbying is aimed at securing the passage of Brid Smith’s Bill which provides for an independent appeals system regarding grievances raised by organizations representing occupational pensioners.
• Arthur McGuinness thanked the committee for its’ work, saying there should be no more levies or raids.
• Eamonn Hayes made the same point, congratulating Stephanie and the team. He referred to the successful submission of the An Post scheme, and said we would not be so successful without the committee. He also thanked Eugene.
• Liam Keogh also thanked the committee, saying the increase had been a significant benefit to him. He spoke of Michael Noonan’s pension raids and asked if we could try to get those funds back.
Stephanie responded that it would be up to the Trustees to tackle that issue.
Joe Harris said that the issue had come up – that of a 2% reductions in salaries and pensions. A ballot to approve it was illegal and so pensions were never reduced.
Eugene said that when the Scheme went into profit the levy was cancelled. However, historic deductions can’t be undone. At the time of the 2008 crash, staff salaries dropped by 8%, but RTÉ pensions were not reduced.
Paul said that funds had been taken out of the scheme. He does not believe there is any realistic push to reverse that decision.
• A motion of gratitude to the committee was proposed.
- Standing down of Committee
Stephanie announced the standing down of the current committee. - Election of Chair
Siobhán called for the election of the new chair, saying that Stephanie was putting herself forward again this year, and asked if anyone present wished to put themselves up for the position. No one did.
Stephanie Fitzpatrick was proposed as chair by Des Maccabee, and seconded by Arthur McGuinness. The meeting approved her election.
- Election of Vice-chair
Stephanie took over the election of the remaining officers and committee members.
She advised that Tony O’Connor was putting himself forward again this year, and asked if anyone present wished to put themselves up for the position. No one did.
Tony O’Connor was proposed as vice-chair by Des Maccabbee, and seconded by Liam Hendley. The meeting approved his election.
- Election of Secretary
Stephanie advised that Siobhán Carew was putting herself forward again this year. She asked if anyone present wished to put themselves up for the position. No one did.
Siobhán Carew was proposed as Secretary by Fergal Costello, and seconded by Drusilla Wynn. The meeting approved her election.
- Election of Treasurer
Stephanie announced that Carole Corrigan was putting herself forward again this year. She asked if anyone present wished to put themselves up for the position. No one did.
Carole Corrigan was proposed as Treasurer by Norma O’Connor, and seconded by Eamonn Hayes. The meeting approved her election.
- Election of Ordinary Members
Stephanie then proceeded to the election of up to 10 Ordinary Members, of whom two would be designated Trustees of the Association.
Stephanie advised that the current committee, with the exception of Kintilla Heussaff and Malachi Lawless who stood down, were willing to continue. She asked for proposers and seconders for the following, who were then elected by the meeting:
Mairéad de Buitléir, proposed by Ann McBride and seconded by Kathleen O’Connor.
Joe Harris, proposed by Eddie Bolger and seconded by Vera Butler.
Phil Healy, proposed by Brenda Moore and seconded by Rita Staunton.
Keith Hyland, proposed by Kathleen O’Shea and seconded by Eoghan Ó Cléirigh.
Joe Little, proposed by Ingrid Miley and seconded by Liam Hendley.
Eamonn Galvin, proposed by Mick Burke and seconded by Michael Campion.
It was agreed that the committee could co-opt further members at ordinary meetings.
- Election of two Trustees of the Association.
Stephanie advised that the current trustees, Tony O’Connor and Phil Healy were willing to continue in the roles.
Tony O’Connor, proposed by Liam Keogh and seconded by Michael Wright, and Phil Healy, proposed by Orla de Cogan and seconded by Deirdre Horlecher. Both were duly elected by the meeting.
- Speaker
Dr Nat O’Connor, Policy Advisor to Age Action and Assistant Professor of Social Policy at the School of Social Policy, Social Work and Social Justice, University College Dublin (UCD), gave a talk to the gathering. The title of his talk was:
Addressing pensioners’ economic and social challenges in Ireland’s imminent general election.
The headline for his talk, and principal points were:
Benchmark State Pension to 34% of Average Earnings, Advance Pension Reform Bill and appoint Independent Commissioner for Older Persons
• Parties urged to fulfil longstanding pledge to benchmark State Pension at 34% of average earnings
• Cumulative inflation for 2020-2025 will exceed 25%
• 7 in 10 older people get at least half their income from Social Protection
• Without greater reform of pensions—including semi-state occupational pension funds – “many more seniors will not have enough money for a comfortable life.”
• Candidates urged to commit on appointing an independent Commissioner for Ageing and Older Persons to challenge ageism.
A leading advocate for older people has criticized the government’s slow response to the cost of living crisis and has urged general election candidates to commit to substantially increasing pensions and strengthening pensioners’ rights.
Dr Nat O’Connor, Age Action’s Senior Policy Advisor, predicted that from 2020 to the end of next year, cumulative inflation will exceed 25%, a figure not experienced here for four decades.
Addressing the AGM of the RTÉ Retired Staff Association, Dr O’Connor said one in three voters in the imminent general election will be aged 60 or older, adding that it makes sense for politicians to pay more attention than ever to that age group’s concerns.
During the last general election campaign, Age Action was part of a broad lobby credited with scuttling plans by the minority Fine Gael-led government to raise the state pension age from 66 to 67.
Dr O’Connor reiterated the pre-election call by Age Action and the Irish Senior Citizens’ Parliament for political parties to fulfil their longstanding pledge to benchmark the social welfare State Pension at 34% of average earnings. He said this would provide much greater income security in older age.
Citing research which he co-authored last year for Age Action’s Spotlight on Income in Older Age, Dr O’Connor said 7 in 10 older people get at least half their income from Social Protection, including 3 in 10 who get more than 90% from welfare payments.
Gender gap
Dr O’Connor said the study also found evidence of the well- known gender pension gap, pointing out that:
“Research by the ESRI finds a 35% gap, with women having lower pensions than men. This is larger than the wage gap, which means that the gender income gap widens considerably in older age. As women are more likely to be widowed than men, older people living alone — and in advanced older age — tend to be women, and they tend to have much lower incomes.”
Second lowest income replacement in EU
Dr O’Connor noted that a European-wide survey found that Ireland has the second lowest level of what’s called “income replacement” in older age in the European Union.
The survey showed that here, pensions replace, on average, 34% of the average current earnings of a person in their 50s.
He said that was a lot less that the EU average replacement of 58% of the incomes of today’s fifty-somethings when they eventually retire.
Dr O’Connor point out that when compared to Ireland, most other European countries provide pension systems that replace a lot more income in older age. Any election promises about pension reform should be viewed in that context.
Occupational pension reform
He called on parties to commit to advancing the progress of a Private Member’s Bill in the name of Deputy Bríd Smith to give retired persons and, for the first time, their representative associations, certain rights of representation with pension funds and the state’s industrial relations institutions. The Bill, which recently moved to Third Stage, would allow for complaints to be raised and pursued beyond the six-month limit imposed on the individual pensioner’s right to complain that’s enshrined in the Industrial Relations Act of 1947.
He explained that, unfortunately, time is up, and the Bill will lapse when the Dáil is dissolved. Dr O’Connor continued, saying that the next Dáil would have the power to pick it up again and to continue where the House left off without having to re-introduce it as a new Bill all over again. We want all parties to commit to advancing this law. He said the Bill is of direct relevance to pensioners who rely on the RTÉ pension scheme for their income in older age, pointing out that, “as many of you know all too well, class D social insurance that was paid back in the day does not grant any entitlement to the social welfare state pension, so older RTÉ pensioners are entirely reliant on their occupational pension.”
Appoint commissioner for older persons
Dr O’Connor said his organization and the Irish Senior Citizens Parliament had joined forces with other age-sector organizations to demand the appointment of an independent Commissioner for Ageing and Older Persons with a brief to challenge discrimination against seniors. He said the proposed office would intervene when public bodies fail to treat older persons fairly.
Dr O’Connor highlighted the “means tests, eligibility rules and other quirks of the system that can sometimes be very unfair” and which, he indicated, the proposed commissioner would investigate. He pointed to the successes of such commissioners in Wales and Northern Ireland, saying Ireland’s commissioner would address the high level of ageism in the general public detected by a professional opinion poll commissioned by Age Action.
Dr O’Connor said his organization wanted to end Ireland’s continuing legalization of mandatory retirement despite the practice being outlawed in Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the USA and the UK. He complained that Irish and European law allows insurance companies to charge higher premiums to older customers, saying, “In theory, they have to publish their actuarial analysis to justify this, but that part of European law is rarely enforced. There is also effective age discrimination when people are forced to go online for banking, to book a holiday or to interact with public services, such as to renew a passport or to book a National Car Test.”
Highlighting the outgoing government’s promise that its Digital First strategy does not mean “digital only”, Dr O’Connor said Age Action holds ministers to account for this, as many older people do not use digital technology or do not want to make certain transactions online, especially financial transactions.
- Open Forum
Liam Hendley spoke of contributory pensions scheme with the State; some are starting now. Should there be auto-enrolment? He said there was a risk that people at the lowest end will opt out because they need their income intact.
Stephanie pointed out that we can say to politicians is that My vote is not guaranteed. I want to see change.
Joe Little spoke. David Davin Power did not want to leave at the mandatory retirement age. This is redundancy by Age.
We are Grey Boomers. Activism is the key. Joining organisation such as Age Action is healthy and highly productive. He asked that we spread the message. Returns on activism are worth it. Pensioners are often regarded as a soft touch. Attend meetings. We have lobbying power.
- Close of AGM
The meeting concluded at 13:58. Stephanie thanked all for attending, saying it was fantastic to see so many people.